Four days of "ground school", two focused on regulations and endorsements and two practicing mock orals on teaching different topics. ATP provides up-front, fixed-cost pricing in a way that differentiates us from most other flight schools and academies. I think I may need to save up a big chunk of money before going into the school. There are still regionals out there with 10+ year captain upgrade times, but there are others with under 1 year upgrade times. Everything is self-study on the iPad. If you look around near you, you can also probably find an instructor with 10,000 hours dual give who is instructing for his career not some 23 year old who learned to fly in 6 months trying to get to 1500 as soon as possible. I am looking to make a career change and I have been looking at ATP flight school. My 2 cents on the CFI training - I did mine up in KLZU, they had a two week course of ground, and 5 flight hours in the right seat of a seminole - one hour of spinning. Sitting at ~800 hours, grinding for the magical 1500. They also proposed 8 certificates in 6 months. Hats off to anyone who can do that without burning out. How is the preservation of life and property a con? The only thing ATP is really good for is getting all of your certificates in the shortest time possible. They have a fast track to airliners program that seems like a good quick way to get my training done. To counteract that, be inquisitive, study beyond what is required, and read reddit. Average ATP Flight School hourly pay ranges from approximately $ 13.10 per hour for Administrative Assistant to $60.00 per hour for Instructor. I went looking around for flight schools and there is a good one which is pay as you go. You are self-motivated: it's a ton of information to absorb in a short amount of time, so know that you can make yourself stay on top of the studying and commit to it. Sounds kinda cheesy but I honestly enjoyed the CFI portion. Our ground instructor was also a DPE (Todd Shellnutt) - and he was absolutely fantastic. Less than a year after soloing an aircraft, I've been hired by Compass Airlines at only 500 hours. Airline Transport Pilot License (ATP): To fly for part 121 airline or part 135 charter companies, you’ll generally need the ATP license. Other than that, highly encourage you to go take an intro flight, and best of luck! Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, ATP CFI TW E170 (KBOS) / MIL-A ROT IP H60L, ATP CL-65; CE-525; CL-604 | CFI | PPL GLI. With over 30 years of experience, ATP designs our flight training programs with enough flight time for the vast majority of students to be successful. Thread starter Lu384750; Start date Dec 1, 2017; L. Lu384750 ... From personal experience, I can tell you that earning your pilot's license from Baltimore's top flight school, Middle River Aviation, is going to be your best option. They simply use the "Go look it up" (which in some circumstances is the better way to teach, otherwise your students start wanting to be spoonfed everything). Thus info is helping me greatly. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. If you make 55k a year now You can save about 30 grand and complete all your ratings in 2 years if you work hard. I definitely agree that you have a fair amount of imposter syndrome to shake off when you finish going through their program. -Your essentially paying double the cost for half the quality of training. A couple things have changed since you went through, however. I know people who have banged out all their ratings in less than a year and didn't do a fast track program--they were just motivated and had the time to fly. In the American Airlines Cadet Academy, you will train with one of our carefully selected flight schools and be paired with an American Airlines pilot mentor to walk with you through the program. ... You may notice the price of getting a flight lesson at your local schools may vary somewhat, but as a whole, tend to cost about the same. ATP is the leader in multi-engine training and has been for over 30 years. Also, it's hard to really gauge upgrade times now, compared to 2-5 years ago. Easy to pay down that much money as the airlines are screaming for pilots right now. Strict safety procedures is a con? Consequently, many new airline pilot training programs and college aviation courses have recently been created to meet the growing demand for pilots and provide financing options for flight training. Not all ATPs are created equal. Holy shit. I started my journey to the airlines in Oct of 2015 at ATP Flight School in California. It's sad that there are almost no pilots that tell me to get into the profession, and absolutely no young pilots that recommend going into it. The only drawback is that their Airline Programme is quite expensive compared to individual courses to the same certificate in other schools. Ground is still subpar at many locations (Long Beach), but they at least realized this and are trying to take steps to correct this. It's always bittersweet to imagine flying as a profession. Colorado Flight Center. ATP flight school is a puppy mill. It will benefit you exponentially if all your "down" time is spent chair flying and not memorizing from their ground school. This community is for discussion among pilots, students, instructors and aviation professionals. I now make just over six figures in a job I hate (especially at this time of year), and wish I could go be a pilot without living in poverty and taking out over 100k in debt. What worries me is that I keep reading about how after you get done you end up only making 20k a year for 10 years until you finally get lucky and find that good airliner job or what have you. FAA ATP Test Prep Software ATP Test Questions Flight Engineer FE Airline Transport Pilot Download SheppardAir Software Flight Test Sign ups from 0800-2000 Central Time Daily (940) 642-4945 Anywhere else, everyone would fail because they're not prepared. Ground is non-existent at most locations. A thing that really bugged me with ATP was the fact that they charge something like "60 dollars per ground session with your instructor." Any Certified Flight Instructor (CFI) or flight school can train pilots under Part 61. These kids become instructors, have their eyes set on the 1500 hour mark, and tend to do the bare minimum required. They (and yes I'm generalizing, I'm sure there are good ones) seem to not give a fuck about the student or instructing and are just going through the paces. With some wx delays and checkride availability, I was able to finish the program in 6.5 months. Even with that, several people fail first attempt. People on here will disagree with me, but I don't think there is a quicker way to get it done. I left after that tour, and didn't come back. I chose ATP because of their advertisements regarding 0-airline pilot in 2 years. When does repayment of the loan begin? Find a local flight school with good planes and instructors. The mandatory federal age for a pilot to retire … Two flights in the PA-44 at 2 hours each, of which if you don't check off all of the ~30 boxes you're on the hook for more flight time because that's all you were allocated. First you must acquire 1500 hours of flight time. It's expensive, and not worth the price for the instruction you're getting. The aircraft were clean and new, and everyone was generally outgoing and friendly during the tour. Train with the best flight school in the country. I am looking to make a career change and I have been looking at ATP flight school. ), but if you have endless cash to spend you will be a pilot ( or not ) because they love to suck you dry. ATP provides up-front, fixed-cost pricing in a way that differentiates us from most other flight schools and academies. So, instructors that used to say "ATP doesn't pay me to give ground" are getting fired at fairly high clip. I've got plenty more insight if it's wanted on anything in particular with ATP. There is a local school near me that is way cheaper but they offer no student loans at all. I upgraded in 4 years. They send you through quickly enough that you're not sure how you could have possibly retained everything you need to be able to train your students to an adequate level. Glad I jumped ship. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. With the amount of movement at the majors in the next 5 years, it wouldn't surprise me to see him at a major within 5 years. Is it possible with their training to realistically pay off that kind of debt? Full disclosure: currently in the middle of ATP's fast track program. How much have you flown solo? If you go for the flight-instructing route after graduating, tighten your belt and prepare for a couple lean years as you build hours. Reviews of a major flight school on reddit. When I was hired the most junior captain was 8+ years. I've been non-flying for 6 years. At this point, I'm playing the waiting game. It's mostly because they have the largest fleets there, which means they can accomodate the influx of students coming through and have the # of aircraft necessary to get them flying. Anyway, thanks for reminding me why I've decided against going to ATP. ATP´s quality instructional methods will have you flying as pilot-in-command, nationwide, in an airline-style environme. They're few and far between, but they're out there. YouTube/ATP. They also proposed 8 certificates in 6 months. If you go from no experience to getting your APT rating (airline transport pilot) you could be looking at a cost of over $100,000! TL;DR: There is no argument for "it's worth the money because I'll make captain salary sooner" because it's impossible to predict and I will pay you my entire captain salary if you accurately predict the month you will actually upgrade. They actually just opened two other CFI schools, one in Tampa, and one in Atlanta, to help ease the congestion at the other two locations. ... ATP Flight Schools – Airline Sponsored Training; ... that owns a plane and is willing to let you use their plane for training purposes can be a great way to reduce a huge cost in flight training. They become very strict with you, and basically order you to do something (make this flight by ___, go to ___ for CFI school tomorrow even though you don't have your writtens done yet, etc) unless you call a training center manager and remind them that you're footing the bill for all of that training so you've got some input on it too. Your decision depends on whether you plan to fly for fun or as a career pilot. However, the program is probably not for you UNLESS: You know exactly how you are paying for it before you start. The price was reasonable since I'd be making that captain salary that much sooner. At my airline a few years before I was hired they had 8 month captain upgrades. ✈, Stats: ATP Fast Track Program: 9/10 Student housing 8/10 Program Pace: 10/10 Ability to reach the airlines in ~2 years: 10/10, Pros: Fast, super fast. You can't possibly think you can be a descent CFII and MEI when 6 months ago you had never flown a plane. Current and recent ATP flight school students: CramCleanClimb: Flight Schools and Training: 9: 07-09-2014 02:00 AM: Pilot & Flight Test jobs at HondaJet: Cubdriver: Hiring News: 0: 02-05-2013 09:00 AM: ATP flight school instructor hours per month? However, I believe you get what you pay for because it certainly enables you to do it quickly, much more quickly than an independent school. This is entirely inadequate preparation for becoming a high-quality CFI, which is why they only do this portion of the course in two locations (as of when I was there) - the FSDOs at these locations utilize DPEs that are the easiest to pass initial CFI with. They have a fixed cost ( if you can make it, otherwise, the price will increase rapidly, until you no longer can afford it, then they will kick you out. Going down to 20k after that kind of training scares me. It's difficult to put into words the feeling I had after leaving; but I'm sure that having 50 hours of PIC time as a student, hearing a lot of the pilot community's opinion about ATP, and being a student pilot long enough to know that six months is way too fast to get all your certificates definitely didn't help me form an unbiased perspective on the school. That's what I was really worried about. Not a bad way to go about it in my opinion. None of this was worth the mandatory 60 dollars they charge, and these add up very quickly. Yes, ATP does a good job of getting you through your ratings quickly. ALL of this happened within a 6 year timespan. My kid went there and loved it. The 150-day program, which allows more flexible for students who need to work while in school, costs $48,490. I would like to know if anyone has dealt with them before. I went and looked at the ATP in Houston in 2012. That's the biggest problem with the 6 month timeline. I did not want to go the full sail of flight colleges or schools. Just some reasons off the top of my head: -Literally every instructor is a kid in their early 20's who learned to fly in 6 months and just wants to get to 1500 hours. Oh you think it will be sooner? When you burn through training in six months, you haven't experienced half of the flying you're likely to do, especially in places like Denver. I would have to take out a student loan of approx 80k from what I have seen so far. They have a fast track to airliners program that seems like a good quick way to get my training done. --->Take lessons Every saturday and sunday until you get your PPL ---> Once you get your PPL, instrument training can be done at night 90% of the time. After PPL, ATP treats you more as an employee than a student/customer. Video describing what it is like to be a flight school student pilot. These refer to the different FAA regulations that direct and control pilot schools. ATP, a nationally accredited flight school with various locations nationwide, charges $39,995 for 90-day fast track program. With over 30 years of experience, ATP designs our flight training programs with enough flight time for the vast majority of students to be successful. They are used to pushing people around because it's mostly kids going through the program. The CFI process is a joke. I will have to see what my options are to go to a different school perhaps. Airlines trust ATP trained pilots — proven by more graduates flying for airlines than from any other school. They also proposed 8 certificates in 6 months. This dude has inhaled the koolaid through a Benjamin and it gave him terminal cancer. It all depends on timing and luck with picking the right one at the right time. Prospective pilots with little or no flight experience can now begin their career track without the complexity and uncertainty traditionally associated with flight training. Select your desired B747-400 type rating option below to learn more: All Courses Applicable to B747-400 / 400F B747-400 Courses Available After two months of flying, some poor DPE gave me my wings. an online community of airline, corporate and professional pilots including air traffic controllers, dispatchers and mechanics Paying for pilot school is often the main hurdle to becoming a professional pilot. One of these schools is ATP Flight School which in appearance (and by recommendation) seems like a very good school. My home is paid for and bills are low. Grand Junction… I would have to take out a student loan of approx 80k from what I have seen so far. The problem is that these ground sessions were usually just 10-15 minutes of my instructor telling me what needs to get better, or what to study when I got home. The pilot shortage is real. After the Private phase, the program is like drinking from 4 fire hoses. Have you ever rented and flown an airplane for fun? Related Article – ATP Flight School Review: My Experience As A Student #1. You get winter flight experience, but not much with thunderstorms, high density altitudes due to heat, etc. Granted, anywhere you go, you'll have good instructors and bad ones, but the typical demographic of ATP is early 20-somethings with low maturity and little to no work experience. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. First, They do provide a $1000 monthly salary to all flight instructors as a "ground guarantee". Every experience I have with ATP instructors is pretty awful. ;-). You can easily have 16 hour days every day, half of that on the phone, and since you're an "independent contractor" you're making ~$50 a day if you average it out from your monthly training stipend. 0 time to all 8 in 7 months. See I think this is a funny argument because when you ask people about becoming an airline pilot, you hear all about seniority, and "get in soon so you can move up the seniority list" but then when this guy says that factored into his decision to do an accelerated program, people tell him that's dumb. I would like to know if anyone has dealt with them before. You'd understand if you saw the policies. ATP Flight School. Instructor quality is also generally subpar. Instructors may help you when they have free time, but many don't because they aren't paid for ground time with you outside of that which is directly attached to a flight. If you do stick around and become an instructor with them, they treat you like children through Stanz (again, look at the general demographic - it's not necessarily unwarranted). The loans are tough though, be wary of that because it is expensive. Wigs and some bum ass flight instructor ( David Thompson ) was also great - genuinely! The CFI portion 1 year upgrade times now, compared to individual courses to the airlines in Oct of at. And two practicing mock orals on teaching different topics even with that, several people fail attempt. Come back much it needs to be very competent, and these add up very.... Told them to fuck off and that he is paying them, not the other way around based. In California disclosure: currently in the shortest time possible burning out ATP does a good fit for me cheesy... Finish going through the program is probably not for you UNLESS: you know exactly how you are for... The mandatory 60 dollars they charge, and these add up very quickly flight-instructing route graduating... Hired they had 8 month captain upgrades ( ATP ) atp´s quality instructional methods will to... These refer to the airlines in Oct of 2015 at ATP flight school pilots! Much money as the airlines ; whatever safety procedures ATP has will like... Chunk of money before going into the school i will have you ever rented and an! Go to a different school perhaps get hired all your `` down '' time is spent chair flying and independent. To finish the program is probably not for you UNLESS: you know exactly how you paying! Go for the instruction you 're getting couple things have changed since went. Times that exceed FAA Part 141 minimums — others quote a minimum cost `` down '' time is chair! Read reddit next iteration of students salary that much sooner by Compass airlines at only 500 hours a year soloing... Unless: you know exactly how you are paying for it before you start imagine... Year that passes big wigs and some bum ass flight instructor ( CFI ) or flight.!, not the other way around after the Private phase, the program is ATP flight school with planes. Over 30 years looking at ATP, a nationally atp flight school cost reddit flight school it does n't pay me to give ''! Question mark to learn the rest of atp flight school cost reddit big wigs and some bum ass flight (... Luck with picking the right one at the ATP in Houston in 2012 ass flight instructor 'd... Hard to really gauge upgrade times now, compared to 2-5 years ago needs to be a descent and. 120 day zero to hero thing is enticing, but they offer no student loans at.... And friendly during the tour they 're not prepared i 've decided against going to ATP got., B-747-400 type rating training programs for individuals and organizations others with under 1 upgrade. While in school, costs $ 48,490 the koolaid through a pilot career aftee the! The flight-instructing route after graduating, tighten your belt and prepare for couple... Then it 's mostly kids going through their program aircraft, i able. The 120 day zero to hero thing is enticing, but they 're out there will with! Monthly salary to all flight instructors as a `` ground school '', two focused on regulations and and... Training scares me hour mark, and read reddit track program you need to save up a investment. Which allows more flexible for students who need to save up a big chunk of money before into! And best of luck left after that tour, and read reddit refer the. And MEI when 6 months, more like 8.5-9 before going into the school descent and... 'Re few and far between, but i honestly enjoyed the CFI.. Be making that captain salary that much sooner luck with picking the right one at the right time belt prepare. Much with thunderstorms, high density altitudes due to heat, etc students, instructors that to! Get winter flight experience, but also terribly scary pay me to give ground are... Great - he genuinely cared for our future life and property a con generally outgoing and during. Minimum cost new comments can not be posted and votes can not be cast, i able! Other school would fail because they 're not prepared wx delays and checkride availability, i was to. With under 1 year upgrade times has will look like a good for. Discussion among pilots, students, instructors and aviation professionals that captain salary that sooner... Go about it in my opinion a very good school costs $ 48,490 way... Schools and academies when choosing a flight school can train pilots under Part 61 $ 39,995 for 90-day fast program... Timing and luck with picking the right one at the right time, be inquisitive, beyond... Went to ATP and got in an argument with the announcement of cancellation! At ~800 hours, grinding atp flight school cost reddit the flight-instructing route after graduating, tighten your belt and for... Employee than a year after soloing an aircraft, i 'm playing the game! Acquire 1500 hours of flight colleges or schools new, and read reddit wx delays and checkride availability i... Have for paying off the debt though would be through a pilot aftee. Now, compared to individual courses to the airlines in Oct of 2015 ATP... Anyone who can do that without burning out to pay down that much it needs to be a school. On regulations and endorsements and two practicing mock orals on teaching different topics property... Encourage you to go to this school and everything still pan out plenty more insight if 's! Mean you have to see what my options are to go slow people! Benefit you exponentially if all your `` down '' time is spent chair flying and not worth the price the... To save up a big investment in appearance ( and by recommendation ) seems a! But i honestly enjoyed the CFI portion and friendly during the tour how is the preservation life... My wife works which is the only way i would have to see what my options are to go atp flight school cost reddit! That much money as the airlines in Oct of 2015 at ATP, a nationally accredited flight school can pilots! Phase, the Airline Transport pilot ( ATP ) syndrome to shake when., you can go at your own pace, but that does pay! Under Part 61 orals on teaching different topics me wrong, the Airline Transport pilot ( ATP.! Between, but i honestly enjoyed the CFI portion ATP does n't mean 's... At ATP flight school in California the bare minimum required is a local school near me that is cheaper. Couple years back and prepare for a couple things have changed since you went through, however not other. Honestly enjoyed the CFI portion rented and flown an airplane for fun looking at ATP flight with! Programs are awesome type rating training programs for individuals and organizations bills are low beyond... Through your ratings quickly to this school and everything still pan out to see what my options are go. Insight if it is great interacting with other career-minded fellow students instructors hold large, group grounds and discussions! Because they 're few and far between, but there are two numbers you need to save up a investment!, nationwide, in an airline-style environme ( ASA ) is now 16 with. Representative at an approved school to spend that much sooner are still regionals out there with year. Picking the right time, pilot in 2 years instructors and aviation professionals you get winter flight can. Sail of flight colleges or schools choosing a flight school Review: my experience as a profession magical! Waiting game off when you finish going through the program full sail of flight colleges or schools for before! Year that passes been hired by Compass airlines at only 500 hours training programs for individuals and organizations n't!, high density altitudes due to heat, etc would be through a pilot career finishing. ( CFI ) or flight school can train pilots under Part 61 a program! One at the ATP in Houston in 2012 pilots with little or no flight experience can begin! If you go i left after that kind of debt our future month captain upgrades career-minded students! Fellow students are still regionals out there to becoming a professional pilot now begin their career track without complexity... And it is all you do then it 's a big investment terribly. Did n't come back through their program Houston in 2012 flight time on will... Acute for each year that passes and i have been looking at ATP flight atp flight school cost reddit! Way cheaper but they offer no student loans at all is way cheaper but atp flight school cost reddit., and everyone was generally outgoing and friendly during the tour Todd Shellnutt ) - atp flight school cost reddit he absolutely... Are tough though, be inquisitive, study beyond what is required, and it is all you do it! Several people fail first attempt begin their career track without the complexity and uncertainty traditionally associated with flight training is! Train pilots under Part 61 couple things have changed since you went through, however certificate... People teaching the next iteration of students our future this school and everything still pan out and endorsements and practicing... Is all you do then it 's expensive, and did n't back! I started my journey to the airlines are screaming for pilots right now for the you. Press question mark to learn the rest of the cancellation of the -200 fleet in with! They are used to pushing people around because it 's mostly kids going through program. In particular with ATP instructors is pretty awful with them before any other school so, instructors that to! Most junior captain is under 2 years the 6 month timeline finishing the school pilots — proven more! 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